Healthy weight loss for geeks.
Too Fat To Fly
I had heard about the upset airlines were causing by charging their larger passengers for an extra seat, but it hadn’t happened to anyone I knew. That is, until last Sunday morning.
My first Southwest flight was a 3.5 hour stretch from Oregon to Chicago. I arrived early as always, checked my bags, went through security, and got to my gate. I was sitting a stone’s throw from gate with about 45m to spare when one of the airline staff walked up and sat right next to me.
“Do you have a ticket for this flight?” he asked. I had no idea what was going on. My first thought was they might have oversold the flight and were going to offer me something above what they normally did for giving up my seat and didn’t want to make an announcement. I was excited because I didn’t need to be there as early as I’d planned and that meant Ivy would have a freebie trip somewhere.
“Yes sir, I do.” I said, ready to hear about my proposed reward.
“Well there’s a policy that if you don’t fit comfortably in a seat with the arms down that you’ll have to buy a second ticket. Do you think you can?” he asked.
I felt sick. There were 100 things I would have said had I not kicked into self-preservation mode. I just wanted the exchange to be over.
“Yes, I can sit in a seat with the arm down.” I said, hoping he would accept it on my word and go away. Of course it wouldn’t be comfortable, but I’d taken full flights before and sat squished into a seat with the arms down. I even made a game of it in my head—I’d pretend I was in a space craft designed for a smaller being. If I got too uncomfortable I could always stand for a bit at the back of the plane; no problem.
“It’s a 4 hour flight. You can sit comfortably with the arms down for the entire flight?” he asked, doubt in his voice. Still gripped with embarrassment I couldn’t even think straight.
“Yes, I can.” I reiterated.
“Okay, we’re going to take you down to the plane shortly to let you get settled and make sure.” he said, finally.
I felt mad, embarrassed, and scared all at once. I made my living traveling. There was no way I could ask my company (or the customer) to eat a second ticket because I was overweight. I worked out what a second last-minute ticket for this flight was going to run me and felt sick.
He came back and took me down to the plane. I stuffed my carry-ons into the overhead and slid into the middle seat, pulling down the arms and showing that I could indeed squish myself between them. At that point I got a bunch of “we’re sorry, but you understand I’m sure” from the attendant who brought me up and the ones working the flight.
So, now you know someone who has come close to getting charged for a second ticket.
Guidelines for Customers of Size
MetaFilter: Forced to buy second seat on Southwest Airlines?
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Thanks for commenting! They actually have a response to this question on the Southwest FAQ (below).
The problem with this is that while 2 regular priced tickets on Southwest is cheaper than a first class ticket on another airline, my customers don’t pay for first class tickets either.
Q: Why not make your seats wider or add a few wide seats on your aircraft?
A: Our ongoing goal is to operate a low-fare, low cost airline, and the costs of reconfiguring our fleet would be staggering and would ultimately reflect in the form of higher fares for our Customers. Purchasing two seats on Southwest Airlines is significantly less expensive than purchasing one first class seat on another airline.
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#3 written by Edna Haney 2 years ago
This is an airline problem, not a passenger problem, If they were not so money hungry, they would reduce the number of seats offered and remove one seat from each row and make the seats a little larger, even the chairs that you buy at the furniture store are being made wider and deeper Airlines need to wake up and supply what people need. There are more people of large stature than twigs out there.
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Thanks for commenting! They actually have a response to this question on the Southwest FAQ (below).
The problem with this is that while 2 regular priced tickets on Southwest is cheaper than a first class ticket on another airline, my customers don’t pay for first class tickets either.
Q: Why not make your seats wider or add a few wide seats on your aircraft?
A: Our ongoing goal is to operate a low-fare, low cost airline, and the costs of reconfiguring our fleet would be staggering and would ultimately reflect in the form of higher fares for our Customers. Purchasing two seats on Southwest Airlines is significantly less expensive than purchasing one first class seat on another airline.
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Dear Steven – I am so sorry that you had an unpleasant experience traveling with us. As you are aware, we do provide and charge for seats based on need – whether the space is needed to accommodate a personal item (such as a musical instrument), an infant carrier, a person’s girth, a person’s unique physical characteristics (e.g., Customers who are unable to sit upright and must lay across several seats), etc. While it sounds like our Employee did his best to be polite and discrete when discussing this matter with you, I regret that this was an uncomfortable situation, especially since it was ultimately unnecessary. If you would like to discuss the matter further, please feel free to contact me directly offline. You should have my email address, and I will attempt to contact you via email as well.
Paula Berg
Southwest Airlines-
It is good to see Southwest has their feelers out looking at customer concerns online. GeekFit caters to the geeks with the sedentary lifestyle which typically (and stereotypically) are people of a larger stature. It’s interesting to think that a persons “girth” is something that requires additional pricing yet there are restrictions on the weight of luggage a person can bring with them. It’s scary to think that some day people may be weighed (like luggage) before boarding instead of measuring their girth (like luggage as well). Penalizing you financially for being overweight is quite concerning and as Steve found out could be quite embarrassing (luckily this wasn’t the case with him to an extent).
It’s also interesting that the airlines cater to people with other physical disabilities, medical conditions, and even alternate belief systems. Yet larger folks are just charged extra for the volume of space they are consuming in the cabin. Vegetarians are not penalized financially for their health choice (if your flight includes a meal, they offer an alternative non-meat meal at no extra cost). People that require wheelchair access are not charged any additional fees for extra services either.
I’m curious to see how this plays out in the future.
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#7 written by ssm 2 years ago
Yes, but most Western societies treat people of larger stature as a “lifestyle” issue, not a deep-seated issue like belief or a happenstance like an accident that leaves one crippled.
Doesn’t work perfectly by any means (there are fat people who exercise and are “responsible” about their health as well as disabled people who got there by being “irresponsible”, for example), but by and large the rule of thumb makes sense to our society as a whole.
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Dear Steven – I am so sorry that you had an unpleasant experience traveling with us. As you are aware, we do provide and charge for seats based on need – whether the space is needed to accommodate a personal item (such as a musical instrument), an infant carrier, a person’s girth, a person’s unique physical characteristics (e.g., Customers who are unable to sit upright and must lay across several seats), etc. While it sounds like our Employee did his best to be polite and discrete when discussing this matter with you, I regret that this was an uncomfortable situation, especially since it was ultimately unnecessary. If you would like to discuss the matter further, please feel free to contact me directly offline. You should have my email address, and I will attempt to contact you via email as well.
Paula Berg
Southwest Airlines-
It is good to see Southwest has their feelers out looking at customer concerns online. GeekFit caters to the geeks with the sedentary lifestyle which typically (and stereotypically) are people of a larger stature. It’s interesting to think that a persons “girth” is something that requires additional pricing yet there are restrictions on the weight of luggage a person can bring with them. It’s scary to think that some day people may be weighed (like luggage) before boarding instead of measuring their girth (like luggage as well). Penalizing you financially for being overweight is quite concerning and as Steve found out could be quite embarrassing (luckily this wasn’t the case with him to an extent).
It’s also interesting that the airlines cater to people with other physical disabilities, medical conditions, and even alternate belief systems. Yet larger folks are just charged extra for the volume of space they are consuming in the cabin. Vegetarians are not penalized financially for their health choice (if your flight includes a meal, they offer an alternative non-meat meal at no extra cost). People that require wheelchair access are not charged any additional fees for extra services either.
I’m curious to see how this plays out in the future.
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#10 written by ssm 2 years ago
Yes, but most Western societies treat people of larger stature as a “lifestyle” issue, not a deep-seated issue like belief or a happenstance like an accident that leaves one crippled.
Doesn’t work perfectly by any means (there are fat people who exercise and are “responsible” about their health as well as disabled people who got there by being “irresponsible”, for example), but by and large the rule of thumb makes sense to our society as a whole.
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#11 written by William Wangerien 2 years ago
I am so sorry this happened to. I used to fly a lot, but have not done so in several years due to being a “Big Geek.” I can not imagine how embarrassing and frustrating this must have been. You being some one who travels for a living, I am sure this will change your attitude towards SW for a long time. They could have looked at your travel history and tell that the size check should have not been necessary. I wonder what will be next “Fat Sizers” at the gate, like the “Size Wise” devices used to determine if your cary on bags will fit under the seats.
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#13 written by William Wangerien 2 years ago
I am so sorry this happened to. I used to fly a lot, but have not done so in several years due to being a “Big Geek.” I can not imagine how embarrassing and frustrating this must have been. You being some one who travels for a living, I am sure this will change your attitude towards SW for a long time. They could have looked at your travel history and tell that the size check should have not been necessary. I wonder what will be next “Fat Sizers” at the gate, like the “Size Wise” devices used to determine if your cary on bags will fit under the seats.
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I’m going to offer up a bit of a contrarian view here, and I hope I can get away with it without offending because I know both Steve and Jason.
What about the guy next to the large passenger? And the one behind him? Didn’t those people pay for their little block of personal space on the plane, too? Given, the space is tiny and I have trouble with the limited space provided to *me*, even at 5′ 9″ and 160 lbs., but still…
Have you ever been pinned in next to someone who spills over into your seat? How about sitting behind someone who forces the seat back by six inches or more into your limited space? Is it his fault? No. It’s the design of the seats and the passenger compartment, but still….
Ultimately, the airline has to ensure the comfort (ha! that made me laugh…) of as many passengers as possible while filling the plane as full as they can in order to support those discount fares we all demand. To me that means that they have to ensure that the 4-6 people sitting around the larger passenger are not inconvenienced.
It’s sad that Steve had to go through such an experience. I know he makes great efforts to keep himself healthy and shrinking when he can, but I don’t blame the airline for doing what is right for their passengers. They definitely run a risk of losing someone like Steve as a continued customer, but it’s better to potentially offend one man than upset many more in the surrounding area.
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I get that, definitely, and I’ve actually had to deal with another flyer who sat next to me and thought I was taking up more than my share of the air on the plane. Given how rude he was to me I can only imagine what a Southwest agent would have to deal with after the fact.
This post wasn’t meant to be an indictment of Southwest at all – they have customers of all shapes and sizes. You can’t please everyone all of the time, right?
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I’ve found that it always helps people to better understand a situation when they can personalize the individual going through the experience. I’m glad you shared this.
So given that seats aren’t getting any bigger, and I’m guessing that your airline choices are sometimes rather sparse, what do you do? How do you deal with it? I don’t find it unreasonable for airlines to set limits on how much personal space they can allocate per ticket, but what do you do and still maintain your job and your ability to travel?
I find the amount of space on planes to be tight to begin with (try flying 10.5 hours to Buenos Aires on a plane configured for domestic service some time… it’s great fun.), and I’d love to see even just a LITTLE bit of extra room on a plane, but there’s an economic trap here. The seats with enough room are priced at a point where, as you pointed out, your clients won’t pay for. When I fly personally, I won’t pay for it either. Yet we still demand the $199 fare from coast to coast.
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From what I’m reading on Southwest’s policy it looks like you have to a) have extra cash on hand to pay for a second ticket and b) if you want that money back you have to be willing to sit at the airport all day to find a flight that isn’t oversold.
Now having flown Southwest nearly exclusively for years I can say that only about 20% or so of the flights have been completely full, although more of them have been lately. So you could pull it off if you absolutely had to.
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I’m going to offer up a bit of a contrarian view here, and I hope I can get away with it without offending because I know both Steve and Jason.
What about the guy next to the large passenger? And the one behind him? Didn’t those people pay for their little block of personal space on the plane, too? Given, the space is tiny and I have trouble with the limited space provided to *me*, even at 5′ 9″ and 160 lbs., but still…
Have you ever been pinned in next to someone who spills over into your seat? How about sitting behind someone who forces the seat back by six inches or more into your limited space? Is it his fault? No. It’s the design of the seats and the passenger compartment, but still….
Ultimately, the airline has to ensure the comfort (ha! that made me laugh…) of as many passengers as possible while filling the plane as full as they can in order to support those discount fares we all demand. To me that means that they have to ensure that the 4-6 people sitting around the larger passenger are not inconvenienced.
It’s sad that Steve had to go through such an experience. I know he makes great efforts to keep himself healthy and shrinking when he can, but I don’t blame the airline for doing what is right for their passengers. They definitely run a risk of losing someone like Steve as a continued customer, but it’s better to potentially offend one man than upset many more in the surrounding area.
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I get that, definitely, and I’ve actually had to deal with another flyer who sat next to me and thought I was taking up more than my share of the air on the plane. Given how rude he was to me I can only imagine what a Southwest agent would have to deal with after the fact.
This post wasn’t meant to be an indictment of Southwest at all – they have customers of all shapes and sizes. You can’t please everyone all of the time, right?
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I’ve found that it always helps people to better understand a situation when they can personalize the individual going through the experience. I’m glad you shared this.
So given that seats aren’t getting any bigger, and I’m guessing that your airline choices are sometimes rather sparse, what do you do? How do you deal with it? I don’t find it unreasonable for airlines to set limits on how much personal space they can allocate per ticket, but what do you do and still maintain your job and your ability to travel?
I find the amount of space on planes to be tight to begin with (try flying 10.5 hours to Buenos Aires on a plane configured for domestic service some time… it’s great fun.), and I’d love to see even just a LITTLE bit of extra room on a plane, but there’s an economic trap here. The seats with enough room are priced at a point where, as you pointed out, your clients won’t pay for. When I fly personally, I won’t pay for it either. Yet we still demand the $199 fare from coast to coast.
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From what I’m reading on Southwest’s policy it looks like you have to a) have extra cash on hand to pay for a second ticket and b) if you want that money back you have to be willing to sit at the airport all day to find a flight that isn’t oversold.
Now having flown Southwest nearly exclusively for years I can say that only about 20% or so of the flights have been completely full, although more of them have been lately. So you could pull it off if you absolutely had to.
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#25 written by Shelly 2 years ago
Great post, Steve. You really humanized a situation that people tend to turn into a joke–people who don’t experience it in their own lives, that is.
I was struck by how what you went through, in being singled out for attention by the airline employee, and having to prove you can use the seat provided, is similar to the experience of disabled people. You try not to call attention to yourself, only to be led to a bulkhead seat, forced to use an elevator, rather than the escalator (no joke), or met at your destination by a wheelchair-driving attendant, when you are perfectly capable of walking unassisted.
Great to see someone from Southwest reading this post. I ave had mostly good experiences with them, other than the wheelchair incident, which was just silly.
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#26 written by Shelly 2 years ago
Great post, Steve. You really humanized a situation that people tend to turn into a joke–people who don’t experience it in their own lives, that is.
I was struck by how what you went through, in being singled out for attention by the airline employee, and having to prove you can use the seat provided, is similar to the experience of disabled people. You try not to call attention to yourself, only to be led to a bulkhead seat, forced to use an elevator, rather than the escalator (no joke), or met at your destination by a wheelchair-driving attendant, when you are perfectly capable of walking unassisted.
Great to see someone from Southwest reading this post. I ave had mostly good experiences with them, other than the wheelchair incident, which was just silly.
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As a follow up regarding the cost of the second seat…as long as the flight does not oversell (having more confirmed Customers waiting to board an aircraft than seats on the aircraft), we will refund the cost of the additional seat after travel. A Refund Advice Slip, a guide for conveniently requesting refunds (via telephone or letter), is provided to the Customer at checkin. And, if it appears a flight will oversell, the option to purchase a second seat and travel on a less full flight is also available, thereby guaranteeing that the Customer will be able to obtain a full refund of the second seat.
For a more detailed Q&A on the subject, you may also visit http://bit.ly/3J8Gl.
Paula Berg
Southwest Airlines -
As a follow up regarding the cost of the second seat…as long as the flight does not oversell (having more confirmed Customers waiting to board an aircraft than seats on the aircraft), we will refund the cost of the additional seat after travel. A Refund Advice Slip, a guide for conveniently requesting refunds (via telephone or letter), is provided to the Customer at checkin. And, if it appears a flight will oversell, the option to purchase a second seat and travel on a less full flight is also available, thereby guaranteeing that the Customer will be able to obtain a full refund of the second seat.
For a more detailed Q&A on the subject, you may also visit http://bit.ly/3J8Gl.
Paula Berg
Southwest Airlines -
While airlines, like any other business, are free to set their policies how they will, it is illegal to discriminate against someone based on race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Size, however, seems to be fair game.
Is it ethical? Is it even necessary? Is Southwest’s profit margin so narrow that they have to humiliate and embarrass someone who may not fit in the child-sized seats most of these flights are outfitted with? At 6’5″ and just over three hundred pounds, I’m a big guy. I probably couldn’t fit in one seat, but I also probably couldn’t really fit in one row. Should I have to buy two rows of seats?
I don’t see how this is a necessity, considering it’s a relatively recent development and plenty of other airlines do without this arbitrary and offensive restriction. It is just another route to increase revenue for the company. It’s no great surprise that corner cutting (remember inflight meals?) has escalated to customer gouging.
Even considering the various points that have been raised about customer comfort, etc., it is contingent upon the airlines to ensure the safety and comfort of all of their passengers, regardless of age, weight, size, or the color of their skin.
If the flight was 100% full, with no extra room in first class, no aisle seats available they could shift a larger passenger to, etc., then perhaps Southwest could have done what they do when overbooking other flights—offered a later flight at a discount or an upgrade to first class, etc.
After all, while they may view it as selling seats, what they’re really doing is serving customers, no matter their age, stature, size, or any other special need they may have. Imagine if they tried to charge handicapped passengers more for “handling.”
To be treated like cargo or cattle is not only dehumanizing, it is unacceptable. I will no longer consider using Southwest for travel until and unless they reverse this ridiculous and unfair policy and make formal apologies (and compensation) to those whom they have offended and hurt by singling out for being “too fat to fly.”
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While airlines, like any other business, are free to set their policies how they will, it is illegal to discriminate against someone based on race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Size, however, seems to be fair game.
Is it ethical? Is it even necessary? Is Southwest’s profit margin so narrow that they have to humiliate and embarrass someone who may not fit in the child-sized seats most of these flights are outfitted with? At 6’5″ and just over three hundred pounds, I’m a big guy. I probably couldn’t fit in one seat, but I also probably couldn’t really fit in one row. Should I have to buy two rows of seats?
I don’t see how this is a necessity, considering it’s a relatively recent development and plenty of other airlines do without this arbitrary and offensive restriction. It is just another route to increase revenue for the company. It’s no great surprise that corner cutting (remember inflight meals?) has escalated to customer gouging.
Even considering the various points that have been raised about customer comfort, etc., it is contingent upon the airlines to ensure the safety and comfort of all of their passengers, regardless of age, weight, size, or the color of their skin.
If the flight was 100% full, with no extra room in first class, no aisle seats available they could shift a larger passenger to, etc., then perhaps Southwest could have done what they do when overbooking other flights—offered a later flight at a discount or an upgrade to first class, etc.
After all, while they may view it as selling seats, what they’re really doing is serving customers, no matter their age, stature, size, or any other special need they may have. Imagine if they tried to charge handicapped passengers more for “handling.”
To be treated like cargo or cattle is not only dehumanizing, it is unacceptable. I will no longer consider using Southwest for travel until and unless they reverse this ridiculous and unfair policy and make formal apologies (and compensation) to those whom they have offended and hurt by singling out for being “too fat to fly.”
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#33 written by crysohara 2 years ago
Steve, I’m so sorry this happened to you. Southwest has had this policy for many years. And a few friends in my BBW circle have experienced it. Fortunately, for me I haven’t and is probably one of the reasons I don’t fly very often.
Thank you for writing a great article.
Just an FYI, Southwest is not the only airline that has this policy. It can happen to anyone of size at any time when flying.
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#34 written by crysohara 2 years ago
Steve, I’m so sorry this happened to you. Southwest has had this policy for many years. And a few friends in my BBW circle have experienced it. Fortunately, for me I haven’t and is probably one of the reasons I don’t fly very often.
Thank you for writing a great article.
Just an FYI, Southwest is not the only airline that has this policy. It can happen to anyone of size at any time when flying.
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#35 written by Malcolm 2 years ago
While this is an uncomfortable situation, I have to disagree with Kris about this being discrimination. They are not denying anyone of plus size the opportunity of flying, but they are trying to mitigate the impact that person would have on the comfort and conditions of other passengers. I’m 6″ 205lbs and I can fit some what comfortably into any airline seat. I would say that the vast majority of passengers fall somewhere at or below my height/weight so it would make no sense to adjust the size of every seat and pass that expense onto consumers, when it’s probably a fractional percent that will require multiple seats.
It’s also a little bit rude to lump someone over weight in the same category as physical disabilities as physical disabilities are rarely self inflicted. And as far as it affecting their profit margins remember it is your decision to fly, not a constitutional right, so what they want to charge for their seats is really irrelevant.
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#36 written by Malcolm 2 years ago
While this is an uncomfortable situation, I have to disagree with Kris about this being discrimination. They are not denying anyone of plus size the opportunity of flying, but they are trying to mitigate the impact that person would have on the comfort and conditions of other passengers. I’m 6″ 205lbs and I can fit some what comfortably into any airline seat. I would say that the vast majority of passengers fall somewhere at or below my height/weight so it would make no sense to adjust the size of every seat and pass that expense onto consumers, when it’s probably a fractional percent that will require multiple seats.
It’s also a little bit rude to lump someone over weight in the same category as physical disabilities as physical disabilities are rarely self inflicted. And as far as it affecting their profit margins remember it is your decision to fly, not a constitutional right, so what they want to charge for their seats is really irrelevant.
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This is an airline problem, not a passenger problem, If they were not so money hungry, they would reduce the number of seats offered and remove one seat from each row and make the seats a little larger, even the chairs that you buy at the furniture store are being made wider and deeper Airlines need to wake up and supply what people need. There are more people of large stature than twigs out there.